I agree with Nadia, and would add one thing: I have found that it is a relatively easy thing to say to a student who wants to argue that there is an appeals process (I might add that I have an individual appeals process and that students rarely use it -- my appeals process requires that the student defend their answer; I do not allow them to "argue the question'). I used to dread these meetings, but found that an individual meeting allowed me to get a clearer sense of what the issue was (test anxiety, issues with study processes, fundamental misunderstandings of the text, or a desire to argue each question). I could then proceed from there with recommendations for the student. The other advantage I find in this process is that I can establish a relationship with students that reinforces what I want them to believe about me and our institution. John Ludlum Communication and Leadership Studies Otterbein University On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Anderson, Nadia [ARCH] < [log in to unmask]> wrote: > Tony, > > I completely agree with the most recent comments. I've had similar > experiences with international students, especially those coming from > systems where memorization is a typical learning method. The idea of > critical thinking and discussion-based learning can be really new for these > students. I have also had non-international students who do not have good > reading skills - they may be reading very superficially and haven't > developed a way of identifying key ideas and concepts. > > If they just want to knit-pick the questions and the RAT process, I also > agree with Mary that it's good to end the discussion quickly. In such > cases, I do try to again explain why we are doing this is class. Some > students, however, seem to refuse to accept the process no matter how many > times it is explained to them or how well their classmates are engaging it. > Thankfully, these are the exceptions! > > Nadia > > Nadia M. Anderson > Assistant Professor, Architecture > Extension Specialist > Iowa State University > > 515-294-0339 > [log in to unmask] > > On Feb 14, 2013, at 8:53 AM, Mary Mccord <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > Hi Tony, > I have had this happen with International students or students where > English is a second language. Some of them truly wish to understand the > material better, and did not understand how the team and class reached a > decision, because the discussion went too quickly for them to capture the > information. For these students, a one-on-one meeting can be a rich and > in-depth discussion of the material. For others, I've discovered during > our one-on-one session that the student has a closed mind to learning and > is nagging for more points. After giving some basic tips about how to > study and take my RATs, I end those sessions. I reiterate to both types of > students that the purpose of the IRAT is to prepare for hands-on material > done later in class, and my RATs are a low percentage of the overall class > grade. > Mary McCord > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 7:42 AM, Anthony Mento <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> >> i have a student who has done very poorly on his first two IRATs; his >> team however has done a very good job. >> >> He wants me to go over his individual IRAT responses. I hesitated to do >> this, telling him he went over each question with his team on the TRAT on >> which they received immediate feedback. >> >> I wonder how you have treated this issue? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Tony Mento >> > > > > -- > Dr. Mary McCord > Professor and Coordinator, Entrepreneurship and Social Enterprise > Servant, StartUp Center and experience entrepreneurship (e2 ) > Harmon College of Business and Professional Studies, Management Department > Dockery 405 G > Warrensburg, MO 64093 > office 660-422-2857 > fax 660-543-8465 > [log in to unmask] > > >