I teach Nursing and we use Rats as only 25% of the student's grade and we have had no complaints but I think alot of that has to do with the minimum percentage you will allow for IRATs-we have experimented with 20% and found it provides too much grade inflation from the TRAT so 30% seems on the mark to us. The lower the IRAT percentage the less students care so maybe look at that because the that scores are generally higher and satisfying to even the high achieving student. In fact our students are begging for a RAT final. With warm aloha, Joyce Vogler, DrPH,APRN Director, Consortium Upper Division University of Hawaii at Manoa Nursing Associate Professor (808)956-5470 (808) 277-0877 cell(best number) On Apr 12, 2012, at 6:49 AM, Brescia, Bill wrote: > We try to ask difficulty questions but questions that are focused on finding out if they did the preassignment. Complex questions are for the application. > > From: Team-Based Learning [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sibley, James Edward > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 11:40 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Is it fair to ask difficult questions on the iRAT? > > > > Hi > > Our student typically score 60-70% on iRAT and 85-90% on tRAT > > High achieving students often have this discomfort…their resistance and push back is what you should expect….stand your ground…. > > Remind them this is about helping them learn, identifying the more difficult concepts, and getting immediate corrective feedback > > Students should NOT get 100% on iRATs > > Remind students that this is a SMALL part of their mark > > Some instructors….for instance….. only count the top 3 iRAT scores (maybe there was 5 RAPs in course) > > ################# > > Here's a quote from Bill Roberson that might give you comfort :-) > > Figuring out how to pitch the course and then managing the pushback, the resistance, and knowing in advance that the resistance is coming and there's nothing wrong with it—it takes you two or three rounds to get the point where you say, yeah, that's okay. > Bill Roberson > SUNY Albany > > > ############### > > Jim > > > Jim Sibley > Director > Centre for Instructional Support > Faculty of Applied Science > University of British Columbia > 2205-6250 Applied Science Lane > Vancouver, BC Canada > V6T 1Z4 > > Phone 604.822.9241 > Fax 604.822.7006 > > Email: [log in to unmask] > Web: http://cis.apsc.ubc.ca > > > © Copyright 2012, Jim Sibley, All rights reserved The information contained in this e-mail message and any attachments (collectively "message") is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient (or recipients) named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this message in error and that any review, use, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail, and delete the message. > > From: "Pollak, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> > Reply-To: "Pollak, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> > Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 11:00:26 -0500 > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Is it fair to ask difficult questions on the iRAT? > > Ethical conundrum: I told my students that the purpose of a RAT is to assure that they understand the basic concepts of the assigned readings, so that we can go on to apply those concepts in class exercises. This suggested to them that they need not study the material as intensively as they would for a regular course exam. Shouldn’t I then create an iRAT on which a student who does the reading according to the reading guide will score 100%? But, if most conscientious students score 100% on the iRAT, why do I need the tRAT? It seems that, in order to justify the team process, I need to test them on the iRAT beyond the basic level at which I led them to study. Isn’t this deceptive? > > Context: I just completed teaching my first TBL course. I converted my Clinical Epidemiology course for first year medical students to the TBL format. I followed standard TBL procedures as closely as possible, including iRATs followed by tRAT using IF_At answer cards. Students who did not score 100% on an iRAT were upset. I reassured them by telling them that I did not expect them to score perfectly and that missing some of the questions did not reflect on their adequacy as medical students. If they were perfect on the iRAT, then there would be no need for the tRAT. The students replied that they did not think it fair to ask them questions that count towards grades that I did not think they could answer correctly during the iRAT. In other words, I set them up to fail, or to not be able to excel, which for many medical students is the same thing. > > I would appreciate your insights on this issue. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Michael Pollak, Ph.D. > Professor of Behavioral Sciences > Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences > [log in to unmask] > 918.561.8426 > > >