What may help you is if you put some sort of study concentration hints on a website for the class. You can tell them that they can use those hints when studying the material so they do not have to focus on the "fluff". The amount of negative comments concerning no lecture before quiz dropped substantially when I clued them in on what concepts to focus on in their studies. As they progress they will also become less dependent on you telling them what to do (my paper is in review on this issue). Good luck Harry Meeuwsen -----Original Message----- From: Team Learning Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Richard A. (Denny) Kernochan Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:33 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Student complaints about TBL? >Paul I can second the motion. Just completed teaching a large class (150 persons) and some of the feedback was astoundingly nasty. In my case the feedback sessions developed into a group mindset about what was wrong with the class. And, as in your case, they diagnosed the principal problem as no lecture = no learning. I never developed an answer and they never bought my assurances. Obviously they become very frustrated. My sense was that they need some sort of (experiential?) yardstick to measure their learning over a "traditional" lecture class, but I'm not sure what that looks like so I'm hoping you get some useful responses. Just wanted to let you know that I've experienced the same thing. good luck RK